As a public high school teacher, I see lots of different religious backgrounds in action "out and about in the world." For the most part Mormon teenagers are well cared for, have a sense of purpose,d uty, community service and a work ethic. I feel bad for them that they have to come to school at 6:30 A.M. for seminary everyday (the school district allows them to use a classroom). However, like with the JWs there are some Mormon kids for whom this religion will be bondage-the kids that are clearly homosexual, and those that just don't buy it and don't know a way. I had a very blunt conversation with a classmate of mine in law school who is an active, devout Mormon, whose husband bailed on her because he finally was tired of not being able to be gay. It was about shunning and excommunication. She gave me the same line that they don't shun former members. It is sort of like the JW line-and then I asked her if she knew of families that shunned their children who had left the faith, and she had to admit that she did, even though it was not the official church policy. When pressed, she admitted it was generally because they were afraid of the fallout from their fellow congregants that motivated it. She admitted that she was impressed that I immediately saw through the veil of official policy to the true practice of most Mormons. I told her that I encourage my Mormon students that are struggling with wanting to be free of their parents' religion, to try to be patient, postpone their missions and try to get as far in their education as possible before formally abandoning their religion. She thought that for the child, it was probably the best way to handle things. They are a bit luckier, Mormons don't deny their children a good education. Shoshana
La Capra
JoinedPosts by La Capra
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55
Should I Convert to Become a MORMON??
by Latte injust thought id share with you.
any tips on dealing with them would be greatly appreciated..thanks!
yesterday, i had two lovely young men at my door - they were mormons.
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If you ever Wondered why it is so HARD to Sue WT for being DFed- read this
by JT inin re: your status in the xxxx congregation of jehovah's witnesses, xxxxxxxxx.
e. when a judicial committee handling a case of wrongdoing reaches the conclusion that the unrepentant person would be disfellowshipped, then the committee will speak with the person and let the individual know of their decision to disfellowship him or her from the congregation.
the supreme court in serbian eastern orthodox diocese specifically held that the first amendment prohibits civil court inquiry into matters of internal church discipline.
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La Capra
When I was studying libel, slander, defamation in my torts class it became very clear that this would not be the way to go if one ever wanted to sue the WTBS for announcements made about disfellowshipping. They never say the reason-which may be false, but the reality-the disfellowshipment-which was true. However, if one dissasociated oneself in one congregation and moved away in hopes of being left alone, started a career as a public school teacher in a town a ways away, and 15 years later the congregation in the new town decided to start telling local members (perhaps even announcing it from the platform to all the congregations in the new town, in front of said teacher's students and their parents) that this person was "disfellowshipped" which does imply there was a fact finding method of determining wrongdoing, then there would be grounds for slander, because "disassociation" in no way "infers" the same moral wrongdoing as "disfellowshipping" and would most definitely damage the professional reputation of this person (to her students, and perhaps, if parents yanked the kids from her class, to her principal and colleagues), creating a slander per se situation. If there is slander per se, damages do not have to proven, they are assumed. (I think this may be about to happen to me, because the elders stopped by a few weeks ago saying they had received a letter that I was living in the area and was disfellowshipped. Would love for them to make that announcement, cuz I'm ready to sue their cologne wearing asses off). When I was studying unenforceability in my contracts class, I learned that minority makes a contract voidable (not void) at the minor's pleasure. The letter at the front of this thread could be very damning to the WBTS since it calls the relationship somewhat of a contractual one, the minor has a way out, and would be better off voiding it than disassociating or getting disfellowshipped. I bet a person baptized as a minor could force the WBTS to remove their name from ALL records as having been "baptized" based on this letter from their legal department admitting to the contractual relationship. No punitive damages or legal fees are awarded in contractual disputes, though. I think there are probably some cases out there for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, though, particularly in some of the molestation situations in which the victim and family were punished. However, statute of limitations is pretty short for this sort of thing. By the way, the letter was a mini "brief", and since the lawyer would expect another lawyer to fact check on the precedents, it's not likely that the cases have been overruled or are misquoted. He could be disbarred, for malpractice, if they were. Shoshana
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How do you manage your money?
by Billygoat inas a child, i used to baby-sit kids in the neighborhood for money.
it wasnt much, but $2 or $3 an hour to a 14 year-old back in the early/mid 80s was pretty big stuff.
on new years eve when a lot of parents were clamoring for baby-sitters, the price would go up to $5 an hour, which was awesome.
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La Capra
Do whatever is necessary to buy your home. Even if you have to eat KV (I haven't had that since I was 3, it's not available in California) for dinner three times a week-it is necessary to STOP CONTRIBUTING TO YOUR LANDLORD'S INVESTMENTS. I love people like you, you pay my mortgage on my rental properties and I get all the tax breaks, free property, and appreciation on the houses. Don't wait until you get your debt reduced. It won't matter. "No down payment" is an option (higher rates, but not prohibitive), and some people even roll all their student loans, consumer loans and auto loans into the mortgages. With two incomes, decent credit (it's not about how much you owe, it's about whether you make payments on time),and a dedicated mortgage broker, moving into your own house by the end of September could be a reality. (Real estate agents know the more reputable mortgage brokers, insurance agents know the better real estate agents). For my first property, I had a very modest down payment, and from waking one morning and deciding it was time, to moving into the property, it took 29 days. A good friend of mine was able to get a mortgage for his first house 6 months after filing bankruptcy. He also moved in in about a month (we both bought houses that were already empty-making the owners happy about really short escrow times). If we could do it on single teachers salaries (3rd year teacher for me), in the San Francisco Bay Area, then you could definitely do it on double "corporate" salaries. Once you get the other debt paid off, you can start putting that money into more property, or retirement accounts. Good luck and Good Funding, Shoshana
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Do You Know Of Reasons Why Some Got Removed From Their Privileges?
by minimus inpioneer, ms, elder publisher???
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La Capra
My older brother was about 14 and had been playing the piano for the meetings since he was about 11. One day at the end of the Sunday meeting my mother was called to the front of the hall to meet with a couple elders. They informed her that my brother would no longer be allowed this "privilege" because his hair was too long (1977-height of the John Travolta/Saturday Night Fever craze-my brother was in the thick of it). While disappointed, she remained calm and only let a few tears out as she walked the three of us out of the hall and drove us home. My brother did not care in the least. He hated playing the songs, even though he was great at it. My mother was humiliated, embarrassed and confused as to why they didn't give my brother a bit of a warning that his hair style was too "worldly" so that he could do something about it (not that he would have-the hair battle raged in our home until he moved out at 18). A few weeks later, I was playing with some neighborhood witness kids, and an elder's son was in the bunch. If I was ten, then he had to be no more than 7 or 8. As elders' son are wont to do, he was making himself out to be a "better witness" than the rest of us. He went so far as to call into question the families of the other witness kids that were with us. Then he told everyone what his father said the elders said about each of the families. His meanest comment came when he asked me why I thought my mom was crying after her elders' meeting a few weeks earlier. I told him it was because my brother wasn't going to play piano anymore. And he said, "yeah, I know, but I do you know why?" I told him sure, because my brother's hair was too long. "Nope" he replied. "My dad told us at dinner that night that the real reason your brother can't play piano anymore is because the elders heard he smokes pot." Everyone heard this little twit say this and we all raced to my house to tell my mom. My mom was furious, on so many levels, but couldn't do a thing about it, since my dad was not a witness, and there was no one to back her up in bringing the elder with big flapping mouth to justice. JR (we'll call him JR, since that's what we called him) never even got in trouble for blabbing to the neighborhood kids like he did. Not only was he wrongly privy to confidential elder matters, but he was informed that the elders had lied to my mother about the reason. The only reason I can think of for why they lied to her was that the reason they knew about my brother's pot smoking was because some other "important" kid in the congregation was smoking with my brother, and they wanted to keep that covered up. This was my first, in the face, irrefutable example of hypocrisy I experienced in the congregation, my mother's too. Too bad she is completely brain washed. She never got a straight answer as to why they lied to her-or with held critical information about her minor child.
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Got any interesting coincidences
by Brummie inlast week at work i wanted to know why my collegue had been called into the office for a talking down.
heres what transpired:.
he had a new credit card and he put the pin number into his mobile phone so he wouldnt forget it.
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La Capra
A few months ago a University mailer arrived at my house addressed to the woman who owned the house before I bought it. I keep a Sharpie in my box to write her new address when things come, but when I looked closely at the address label on the postcard. It was covering an address previously printed on the card. When I looked closely at the bleed through, I could read it. It was addressed to the man who bought my parents' house-the one I grew up in. He and his family apparently still live there. Weird coincidence. I had to hand deliver this one to the gal I bought the house from, with proof I lived at the other address as a child. We thought it was pretty cool. Shoshana
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Why do most brothers work in the cleaning business?
by JH inwhen i joined the jw's many years ago, i couldn't get over how many were working in the cleaning business.
i know this permitted them to go to the meetings, out in the field service, and work without any conflict.. where did this trend start?
is it like this world wide?
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La Capra
I was going to hire this dub pioneering couple to clean my house regularly. I had them do a trial run, but had to go back to work after let them in my house. I had had them come and paid them for four hours total person hours (at $20 per hour). My next door neighbor told me the wife left a half hour after I did and came back to get the husband an hour later (yes, I had asked her to keep an eye out for when they left). I had left a list of things to be done if they had time. They only cleaned the surfaces that showed, and not well either. When they called later that week to schedule the next job, I told them that it just didn't look that my house had been getting cleaned for four hours. The point? Oh, well, I think many do it because they generally are unsupervised and can fudge their hours (like on their service reports...)-and no one questions it because "witnesses are such honest people" (TM).
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disturbing
by embalmed inunnecessary rant:.
dammit.
i hate the kingdom hall even more than before.
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La Capra
So something my big brother did, with whom I am incredibly impressed with his scheming, is this: He got the part time job and made sure he got scheduled to work during our regular Sunday Meeting time, and was "forced" to go to another congregation's meeting, during that time, he dressed, put his Watchtower in his pocket, and supposedly "went" to the other meeting. But actually he hung out in a local cemetary, doing homework, or reading other, more constructive material. Whenever our mom would ask if he attended he would happily lie. If asked for "content" he would be honest and say he couldn't remember anything. She never actually checked up on him, but then my mom didn't want to know the truth. Try "disappearing" (take those murderous dogs for walks) about half an hour before meetings and staying away for a few hours. Your mum may be there or not when you get back. One time, at a meeting, my brother got up and sat in the back row for awhile, then, during the changing of the "schools" he left, and came back after the closing prayer (that was pretty brilliant, I thought-no public scene, my mom was too mortified). The beauty of it is if she drags you to the elders, they might disfellowship you (you are baptized, aren't you?). You can sort of hold that over her head, the threat that if that occurred she might have to shun you, but still support you (the law says so). Also, if you are on meds, have the doctor "order" you to stay away from the Kingdom Hall and Bible Studies for awhile. If mum still insists, try getting catatonic. I always wanted to try that but chose the very direct approach (although for three years of high school, I had her believing I had a phobia of talking-no field service, no comments at meetings). Hang in there. It will be worth it. You sound like a goat after my own heart. Shoshana
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La Capra
I finished my first year of law school last month. Grades arrived at the end of last week, which was when I found out I am first in my class. I was not trying for it or expecting it, so to say I was surprised is an understatement. I can't help feeling this is a bittersweet victory. If I were "still in" and doing this, my achievement would be turned into a sin, and held out as a bad example and proof of something unchristian (take your pick of what), like whenever I did well at something in high school (I was actually counseled for being selected for honor band). Dang I am glad I am out and living well. I love law school. The chief public defender for the county has called and left me a message. I wonder what he wants....(probably to tutor his kid in math, huh?) Shoshana
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Are there any teachers on this board?
by logansrun inso, i'm thinking about becoming a high school teacher.
i'm finishing up a summer course at my community college and will be going to northeaster illinois university in the fall.
i've been thinking about majoring in biology and secondary education (instead of history and secondary ed.).
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La Capra
I am a high school math teacher in California. This is my eleventh year teaching. At the end of my tenth year, I decided to go law school. I love teaching. I love spending my days with bright, witty, hopeful and energetic adolescents. But I was bored out of my mind with the curriculum. I am a creative, artistic type, and there came a point where the material got old. I hear this happens in ALL subject areas. I have been told that having significant outside interests makes this a more bearable kind of boredom, which is why I decided to go to law school. The money was really bad my first few years teaching. But I made it a priority to get all the units I needed to max out my salary credits as early as possible. Non-teachers always say it's a good deal because we get summers off, to travel, but the reality is that travel is expensive, more so in the summer, and if a teacher wants to get ahead financially, she needs to work in the summer for awhile. You will feel a financial pinch for about five years, which seems to be the "survival rate" of about half the new teachers in California. The politics of teaching is pretty horrific, but if you can keep your eyes open, your mouth shut, and figure out who in your particular district is the one to keep happy, once you have tenure, there is a lot of freedom to do what you please. The main stress of teaching is that no matter how many hours of your own time you put into it, there is more that you can be doing. This is the heart of what makes teaching so stressful-no matter what, you are never done. If you are a parent, or plan to be one, teaching is the type of career that does give you more time with your children, since the schedules are similar. Most teachers struggle for about five years with the paper chase, then a system that works for them emerges. As far as the district paper work goes, it is, in actuality, minimal, unless you are teaching in a special services area (English Language Development, Speech Therapy, Special Education). And teachers are notorious flakes when it comes to this kind of thing, too, so in all likelihood, the secretaries have to remind the teachers of everything that does need to be done, paperwork-wise. Teaching high school isn't rocket science or brain surgery. There is a fairly forgiving margin for error. In fact, considering that a typical teachers has to make over 5000 decisions a day in carrying out her duties, and most of those decisions are then tweaked by 160 individual immature human beings, there HAS to a fairly forgiving margin. Teaching preparation programs can be expensive, so if your state has a program that can get you into a classroom BEFORE committing to most of the training, you can save yourself some time and money testing it out to see if you really want to do it. Substitute teaching isn't always a valid test because it's always someone else's show you are temporarily running. You need to find out if you like putting on your own show. Good Luck. Shoshana